Recently, I had a disturbing week looking for freelance writing gigs. I concentrate on applying for jobs where one of my areas of specialized knowledge is required, because I know there's lots of lowball pricing for general topics. Surely, they can't get a student, Third-World resident, or wannabe writer to write about arcane legal areas or variable annuities, so rates there should still be a living wage – or so I thought.
One week, I applied for several legal writing gigs. Two of them got back to me. One paid $20-$40 per 400-600-word article. The other, an agency which claims it has more than 200 law-firm clients, paid $15-$30 a blog. This second guy had called on the phone and was clearly serious about hiring, unlike the many flaky email nibbles I get off resumes I send.
After I informed him that I did not work for remotely those rates and hung up…I thought about it a lot. I wish I had kept him on the phone so I could have asked this recruiter some questions.
Questions like, "Are you serious?" and "Is that even legal?" and "Do you actually find qualified people willing to write legal content at those rates?" and "Don't you feel ashamed to be offering what will work out to less than the minimum hourly wage (more than $8 here in Washington State) for a very specific writing skill that requires years of experience?"
He let me know his current team was "pretty maxed out" – yeah, I'll bet. More likely that was code for "It's really hard to find anyone who can do this work competently at these rates." To which I say, good.
I thought a lot about this call because for a tiny moment, just an instant really, I considered taking this gig. Legal is easy for me…OK, I'd have to work a LOT of hours to make it into anything like a living…if each blog took an hour, it would take me all day and night to earn something like my normal hourly rate…but this firm has a lot of clients I could connect with. Maybe I should take this and hope to build the account into some better-paying work .
Then I snapped out of it, and wrote this:
7 Reasons Why I Won't Write A $15 Blog
1. I'd rather quit writing. If that's all I'm going to make, I'd rather go out on the lawn and play Frisbee with my kids. They'll only be young once. If I can't really pay the bills writing, I should pack it in and enjoy life.
2. I won't be part of the problem. I won't contribute to the current downward spiral in pay rates by accepting insulting pay. If I accept this kind of work, it reinforces the idea that high-quality content on specialized topics can be obtained from professional writers at one-tenth or less of what was, until recently, market rates. I refuse to be part of the problem.
3. Low paying work begets more low-paying work. Say I worked for this legal content sweatshop, and managed to convince one of their clients to work for me directly. Even if the connection helped me land other clients and I cut out the middleman, I'm doubtful the wages would be appropriate. Any client I got through my association with this low-payer would likely also want to pay me joke wages. Once customers have the impression you're cheap, it's hard to convince them that you're not.
4. I'd rather get a day job. At those rates, I could make more money as an assistant manager at a fast-food place, and work on that novel in my off hours. So if it comes to it, I'll do something else to pay the bills. My creativity will be fairly compensated, or I'll earn money another way. I type fast – I have made a living as a secretary in the past, and could again.
5. I want to take a stand. I believe we're at a turning point in the world of online content that requires taking a moral stand. Thousands of scam operators have flooded into the marketplace, hoping to get writers to write for peanuts and then either resell the work for much more, or sell ads against them and make much more, or sell their whole Web site to someone else and make a killing – all off our backs. What they're doing is morally wrong. So my basic sense of decency and justice demands that I resist exploitation. Accepting low-pay assignments may pay a few bills in the short term – emphasis on a few – but in the long term it will foster more exploitation. That's why, for the sake of our vocation's future, it's important to refuse.
6. I have good-paying clients. I've been afraid to say this out loud for fear of jinxing it – but I still have some very good-paying work. Contrary to what you may have heard, there are still magazines and corporate accounts out there that understand that writers who freelance need to make an appropriate wage, or they'll soon leave the vocation and be unavailable to create the content clients need to keep growing. Maybe there are fewer of them, but I know they still exist. That knowledge makes it easier to turn down slave-wage gigs.
7. Market forces will raise rates in time. As the economy improves, I believe the pool of good freelancers who can deliver sophisticated, quality content is going to shrink dramatically as many find new jobs. Then rates will naturally be driven back up as it becomes harder to find qualified writing help. I know writers who are already getting jobs in other fields. The fact that Demand Studios recently announced a plan to offer some of its writers health care is a sign that we've hit the saturation point. These sweatshops are struggling to attract the talent they need, and that their compensation is going to start to improve.
While professionals from other fields who want to write articles to market their services will always be around, and won't care how little such articles pay... there aren't enough pro writers who'll take these rates to go around. So rates are going to rise.
I believe this is not a new normal – this is a momentary market glitch in our industry that's taken root due to the downturn. Meanwhile, people are not going to stop reading quality publications, and companies will still need to communicate clearly with their customers in the future. The economy will recover, most content-mill writers will probably get jobs and leave, and rates will rise.
The only way to stop the exploitation is for professional writers to say "no" to insultingly low rates. I'm willing to be the first writer to publicly stand up and do that. Will you join me? If so, sign the petition on my Web site and pledge never to work for less than $50 an assignment. The first step in bringing more power to writers is to organize.
Why $50? That's what I got paid per article when I first started out in 1999. Rates shouldn't be lower now, accounting for inflation. So I think that's a good cutoff.
Who knows? Maybe Lance Armstrong or Amazon.com (have you seen their mill, Amazon Mechanical Turk?) would improve their pay rather than face public embarrassment over their rates.
If we pull together, we could create that public pressure. Maybe the number of clients for these mills could be decreased if we raised public awareness of the situation. That would grow the pool of better-paying markets for freelancers to approach on their own and lessen the profiteering mill owners are currently able to do off writers' labor.
Want to quit the content mills and learn how to make a good living writing? I mentor a maximum of three writers a month and teach them how to earn more. Also hoping to complete my e-book shortly on this topic, Make a Living Writing -- if you're interested in a copy, email me and I'll put you on the list to get a notice when it comes out.
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7 Reasons Why I Won't Write A $15 Blog
11/15/09
Comments
I want to thank you for writing this. I see you've taken a good bit of flak for it and I'm sorry. But "Thank You" for having the courage to speak up.
May I add my perspective? As a health consultant I see bad (and sometimes) dangerous advice on the sites you're talking about every day. I see writers with no medical credentials recommending unproven "therapies" and unstudied herbal remedies EVERY DAY. I also see people writing about medications, herbs and supplements without ever mentioning that every single one has the potential for side effects, medical interactions or other complications.
Most days I try to adopt a live-and-left-live mentality but every now and then I'll see something so dangerous, stupid or medically irresponsible I feel morally compelled to speak up. To date, I have NEVER had a single content mill EVER contact me to say, "Oh, wow, we really dropped the ball here." Nor have I ever seen an article reworked after I "complained".
If it sounds as though I'm on a moral high-horse, well, I suppose I am but it has nothing to do with "resenting" other writers. First, I don't consider myself a writer and, second, how could I resent someone working for less than minimum wage? What *I* resent is having to sit across a desk from someone and explaining for the third or fourth time that cutseypants over at somewebsite.com is wrong. You CAN'T mix that herb with your ED meds and you HAVE to tell your doctor about all the garlic you've been taking before your surgery--even if cutseypants does have 200 articles on herbs up over there.
May I add my perspective? As a health consultant I see bad (and sometimes) dangerous advice on the sites you're talking about every day. I see writers with no medical credentials recommending unproven "therapies" and unstudied herbal remedies EVERY DAY. I also see people writing about medications, herbs and supplements without ever mentioning that every single one has the potential for side effects, medical interactions or other complications.
Most days I try to adopt a live-and-left-live mentality but every now and then I'll see something so dangerous, stupid or medically irresponsible I feel morally compelled to speak up. To date, I have NEVER had a single content mill EVER contact me to say, "Oh, wow, we really dropped the ball here." Nor have I ever seen an article reworked after I "complained".
If it sounds as though I'm on a moral high-horse, well, I suppose I am but it has nothing to do with "resenting" other writers. First, I don't consider myself a writer and, second, how could I resent someone working for less than minimum wage? What *I* resent is having to sit across a desk from someone and explaining for the third or fourth time that cutseypants over at somewebsite.com is wrong. You CAN'T mix that herb with your ED meds and you HAVE to tell your doctor about all the garlic you've been taking before your surgery--even if cutseypants does have 200 articles on herbs up over there.
Thanks for the comments!
Personally, I've set my floor at about $100 an article...but I made $50 the petition cutoff for a couple of reasons. First off, that was what I got paid to write articles for alternative papers when I first started out years back. I think for a first few clips, that's not a bad rate...even though inflation should make that higher by now! There's no shame in getting paid $50 to write a short article when you're new.
Also, I just find browsing the ads that $50 is a real dividing line in the marketplace. Below it are oodles of ads for highly expert articles various folks would like written for $5 or $20...sometimes as high as $30. Very rarely, rates seem to go up to $40 an article or blog.
And then there's a big gap in the prices, and you're into real businesses who want to hire pros for a substantial hourly rate, or that pay $.50 a word, and know they really need a quality article tailored for them, about something that requires special expertise. And you're into the money. So picked $50 as that seems to float above the exploitation level, and will hopefully keep writers from wasting time on gigs that don't pay a living wage.
Dr. Lisa brings up a critical point few ever want to confront about the big content sites -- without much professional editing being applied, their articles are of dubious accuracy! And in the medical field that could be deadly.
This is a side of it I try to talk to writers about -- there's an understanding out in the marketplace that these articles don't equal getting published in your local paper, that there's a different standard. So they don't make the greatest audition pieces, even if yours are strong, because of the overall impression in the market that it's mostly junk on the sites. But a lot of writers don't seem to realize that, that they're creating 100 articles for likely not a lot of marketing upside.
Personally, I've set my floor at about $100 an article...but I made $50 the petition cutoff for a couple of reasons. First off, that was what I got paid to write articles for alternative papers when I first started out years back. I think for a first few clips, that's not a bad rate...even though inflation should make that higher by now! There's no shame in getting paid $50 to write a short article when you're new.
Also, I just find browsing the ads that $50 is a real dividing line in the marketplace. Below it are oodles of ads for highly expert articles various folks would like written for $5 or $20...sometimes as high as $30. Very rarely, rates seem to go up to $40 an article or blog.
And then there's a big gap in the prices, and you're into real businesses who want to hire pros for a substantial hourly rate, or that pay $.50 a word, and know they really need a quality article tailored for them, about something that requires special expertise. And you're into the money. So picked $50 as that seems to float above the exploitation level, and will hopefully keep writers from wasting time on gigs that don't pay a living wage.
Dr. Lisa brings up a critical point few ever want to confront about the big content sites -- without much professional editing being applied, their articles are of dubious accuracy! And in the medical field that could be deadly.
This is a side of it I try to talk to writers about -- there's an understanding out in the marketplace that these articles don't equal getting published in your local paper, that there's a different standard. So they don't make the greatest audition pieces, even if yours are strong, because of the overall impression in the market that it's mostly junk on the sites. But a lot of writers don't seem to realize that, that they're creating 100 articles for likely not a lot of marketing upside.
Thank you for posting this. I was getting $250 for 4-page newspaper feature stories in 1976! And getting $75/hour as a contractor tech writer in 1993-1994. Now companies are trying to lowball writers--partly because of outsourcing and offshoring and partly because most folks don't understand what is *really* involved with writing and editing.
Your suggestion of specialization is good--but like you said, even the *specialties* are being swamped with bargain-basement rates. So, likewise, I'm getting ready to move to other career options if this idiocy continues--even though I love writing and editing.
Your suggestion of specialization is good--but like you said, even the *specialties* are being swamped with bargain-basement rates. So, likewise, I'm getting ready to move to other career options if this idiocy continues--even though I love writing and editing.
Just chiming in re: semantics. Someone else correct me if I\'m wrong, but it\'s \"$15 a blog POST.\" The \"blog\" is the entire site; a \"post\" is an \"article\" on the blog.
Unless something changed and I missed the memo...
Unless something changed and I missed the memo...
Carol,
I can't tell you how happy I am to have found this article. How much my support goes out to you and writers everywhere struggling with this same issue.
I left the corporate world over a year ago to go back to freelance writing. I was shocked and dismayed all at the same time. Bidding wars, pricing at $1 - $20 per article, wanting the same content rewritten by software in 5 different ways but saying the same thing. I couldn't believe it. Were seasoned writers really doing this, and when did they sleep? I certainly cannot earn a living wage doing this. So I pulled out of the freelance writing gig sites, very afraid my moral high ground would see me eating beans and rice for years to come.
Your article has made me at least feel better. I write technical documentation, have 15 years experience doing so and my abilities come through years of schooling, training, and experience. Is this not worth something? I don't think non-writers understand how much is actually involved in writing 500 words. Or how difficult it is to translate engineer and development speak into instructions a person with no technical aptitude can understand.
I made more writing from 1995 - 2002, than I have made in the last 7 years. I understand the economy. I budget better. I cut back more. What I am not willing to do is lower my quality of writing because these shops have deemed it so.
Thank you for letting me know I am not alone in being horrified by what is happening in the world of content.
I can't tell you how happy I am to have found this article. How much my support goes out to you and writers everywhere struggling with this same issue.
I left the corporate world over a year ago to go back to freelance writing. I was shocked and dismayed all at the same time. Bidding wars, pricing at $1 - $20 per article, wanting the same content rewritten by software in 5 different ways but saying the same thing. I couldn't believe it. Were seasoned writers really doing this, and when did they sleep? I certainly cannot earn a living wage doing this. So I pulled out of the freelance writing gig sites, very afraid my moral high ground would see me eating beans and rice for years to come.
Your article has made me at least feel better. I write technical documentation, have 15 years experience doing so and my abilities come through years of schooling, training, and experience. Is this not worth something? I don't think non-writers understand how much is actually involved in writing 500 words. Or how difficult it is to translate engineer and development speak into instructions a person with no technical aptitude can understand.
I made more writing from 1995 - 2002, than I have made in the last 7 years. I understand the economy. I budget better. I cut back more. What I am not willing to do is lower my quality of writing because these shops have deemed it so.
Thank you for letting me know I am not alone in being horrified by what is happening in the world of content.
You\'ve posted an excellent article, Carol. Your 7 points should be a mantra for all writers. Kudos!
I heartily agree with Dr. Lisa\'s comments about health and medical content found on the web, especially the posts found on the content-mill websites. My estimate is that 95% of those posts are misleading or wrong -- and many are dangerous.
There are far too many amateurs and quacks who try to use the web to practice medicine without a license.
I heartily agree with Dr. Lisa\'s comments about health and medical content found on the web, especially the posts found on the content-mill websites. My estimate is that 95% of those posts are misleading or wrong -- and many are dangerous.
There are far too many amateurs and quacks who try to use the web to practice medicine without a license.
Carol, I just read an article about this problem last week on Writers Weekly's email newsletter, and I responded to the author of the article that I join her in her disgust at the lowball fees companies are tossing at writers these days. I just had a company with three web sites offer me all of $10-15 an article for work that had to be researched and written in a specific style, and rewritten for free if the editors deemed it necessary. I wrote and told them that I couldn't write any article for less than $50 because it takes me 4 hours to write an article with very little research, so I can't work for less than minimum wage, or I might as well be working for free. My letter to the editor of Writers Weekly is in this weeks edition, I believe, and I know I am not the only writer who is outraged by this, and saddened that I have to look for work in other fields because I can't make a living as a freelance writer anymore.
Thank you for articulating what so many of us are encountering out there in freelance-land.
I wholeheartedly agree with you and think that we must draw a line in the sand when it comes to rates, otherwise we will never be able to get paid like professionals again.
DeAnn Rossetti
www.butterflybooks.blogspot.com
www.upholsteredbelly.blogspot.com
Thank you for articulating what so many of us are encountering out there in freelance-land.
I wholeheartedly agree with you and think that we must draw a line in the sand when it comes to rates, otherwise we will never be able to get paid like professionals again.
DeAnn Rossetti
www.butterflybooks.blogspot.com
www.upholsteredbelly.blogspot.com
Likewise, I am saddened/outraged/dumbfounded by the fact that there are sites that feel it\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s ok to ask writers to work for nothing and writers out there with so little faith in themselves that they agree to do so. Or they\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'re so young that they don\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'t realize they are being exploited for others\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\' gain. This type of exploitation extends to other creative outlets (youtube, for example).
I have always done the freelance writing as a sideline, but remember the glory days of 1995 when I got $750 for one article. Even a local freebie paper was paying me $40 when I first started out in 1990 (and had no other clips)!
Right now if there\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s something I really want to publish, I have a bottom rate of %50. As a matter of principle, I would never work for free.
I have always done the freelance writing as a sideline, but remember the glory days of 1995 when I got $750 for one article. Even a local freebie paper was paying me $40 when I first started out in 1990 (and had no other clips)!
Right now if there\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\'s something I really want to publish, I have a bottom rate of %50. As a matter of principle, I would never work for free.
Amen, sister. I've been freelance writing for more than 10 years. A buck a word was the standard on the West Coast back then for magazine and online writing. Anything less is slave labour. It's difficult, to say the least, to cover taxes, insurance, health care and the laborious amount of administrative tasks required to run your own freelance business; impossible on the rates you discuss. Maybe someone should be reporting these asses to some kind of fair trade commission or whatever you call it over there. (I'm now in Australia.)
You definitely have to stick to your principles on this one. Your 7 Reasons are gold!
You definitely have to stick to your principles on this one. Your 7 Reasons are gold!
Great article!
I have stopped selling my articles to the lowest bidder (I finally faced reality). The publishing houses I was working with wasted my time and efforts for the all their revision demands much less the final piece at rates they calling competitive. These days, I am working on 2 fiction novels while working a full-time job. At least I\'m paying the bills and can afford to eat healthy.
I wonder why the online canned-spam publishers will not step out of the box and work harder to find quality writers who write with passion, facts and conviction. What are they so afraid of?
I have stopped selling my articles to the lowest bidder (I finally faced reality). The publishing houses I was working with wasted my time and efforts for the all their revision demands much less the final piece at rates they calling competitive. These days, I am working on 2 fiction novels while working a full-time job. At least I\'m paying the bills and can afford to eat healthy.
I wonder why the online canned-spam publishers will not step out of the box and work harder to find quality writers who write with passion, facts and conviction. What are they so afraid of?
Thank you! I am so glad to see this. I mean, I hate that other professionals find themselves in this boat, but I'm glad I'm not alone. I have been writing for over 10 years, and I have never seen such insulting rates ... I was offered $50/1500 words for very demanding health writing. 3 articles a week. So ... I should live off of $150/week? When I explained that just wasn't possible, I never heard from the jerks again. My favorite is when I see ads offering "up to" $15/hour. I'm actually in the midst of creating an alternate career for myself because I just won't work for less than minimum wage. It's just disgusting and I'm tired of it.
Thank you Carol! I responded to this blog on the Writing Mafia group on LinkedIn, where an Italian writer posted a link to it.
I've been steamed about the lousy rates out there for a while now. As Trix says, it's disgusting.
I've been steamed about the lousy rates out there for a while now. As Trix says, it's disgusting.
Hi Andrew -- thanks for alerting me that it's on that list, which I'm not a member of...will check it out!
Carol
Carol
Hi Carol, as a new freelancer and blogger, I really appreciate your advice. It takes people at the top like you to look out for us newcomers and set the tone for fairness. Currently I base my fees on what I expect an assignment to take me timewise, and that seems to be working out well so far. Great blog, thanks so much for sharing!
@AmandaCrater
@AmandaCrater
I could NOT agree with you more! As a professional freelance writer, this is one of my biggest pet peeves. I can think of no other profession - or any work at all (even fast food joints) where people who are skilled and experienced get offered such low pay at times. I refuse to work for it either - the only times I will are when the project in question is either pro bono work for a nonprofit issue I'm very passionate about, or it's something on the topic of my book and I can promote my book with it. Otherwise, no way.
I once even had the even more insulting "job offer" that stated "We don't even charge you to write for us!" ???WTF??? It's like they think that getting "exposure" is all the pay you need. Well maybe a writer just starting out, but for experienced writers I am with you Carol. We need to keep the bar higher. I know there are a lot of amateurs out there on the web, and blogging has really brought forward thousands of people who are willing to write for free. But they are amateurs, not professionals, and so I say: LET THEM! But for those of us doing this for a living, we need to insist on getting paid what we are worth!
By the way, loved your comment about for ridiculously low pay, you'd rather go play frisbee with your kids. Kudos!!
I once even had the even more insulting "job offer" that stated "We don't even charge you to write for us!" ???WTF??? It's like they think that getting "exposure" is all the pay you need. Well maybe a writer just starting out, but for experienced writers I am with you Carol. We need to keep the bar higher. I know there are a lot of amateurs out there on the web, and blogging has really brought forward thousands of people who are willing to write for free. But they are amateurs, not professionals, and so I say: LET THEM! But for those of us doing this for a living, we need to insist on getting paid what we are worth!
By the way, loved your comment about for ridiculously low pay, you'd rather go play frisbee with your kids. Kudos!!
Thank you so much, Carol! That was awesome -- I just posted the link on Facebook. Truer words were never said. We need to honor ourselves, or no one else will.
It's very gratifying to find community with other writers who are pressing forward demanding appropriate pay rates. As you may know, I'm being roundly slagged for suggesting those who write for $15 on Demand over at About Freelance Writing ought to refuse to work for those rates.
When folks brag about how they don't write for $5 a piece anymore, no, they're all the way up to $15...well. Obviously, I can only help those who'd like to stop having to write 4 "articles" an hour 40 hours a week to make it pay.
And obviously, not everyone does have the writing skills to write for better-paying markets. Many of us who do, though, I find are sort of dazzled by these sites and the prompt payment (#1 thing folks seem to mention they like!), and then it's hard to break away, even though one decent client could assign them one article that would make them more than they're making all week.
Hang in there all...and know that good-paying markets are still out there.
When folks brag about how they don't write for $5 a piece anymore, no, they're all the way up to $15...well. Obviously, I can only help those who'd like to stop having to write 4 "articles" an hour 40 hours a week to make it pay.
And obviously, not everyone does have the writing skills to write for better-paying markets. Many of us who do, though, I find are sort of dazzled by these sites and the prompt payment (#1 thing folks seem to mention they like!), and then it's hard to break away, even though one decent client could assign them one article that would make them more than they're making all week.
Hang in there all...and know that good-paying markets are still out there.
Carol,
Your 7 reasons should appear on every professional writing web site and on the bulletin board of every aspiring writer.
My only comment: several people in their comments observe that maybe its okay for new writers to work for sweatshop rates just to get some credits.
No, its not okay. First, saying you've been "published" by a content mill won't impress any prospective client or editor who's worth working for.
Second, no matter what field a new professional writer is in, there are plenty of ways to get good clips without going near a sweatshop. If you're a journalist, you can start by writing articles for small publications or web sites in your field; even if they don't pay much, they're proof that you can meet a real editor's standards. If you're a commercial writer, start with small local companies, or do a couple of pieces pro bono for a non profit. Either way, you'll also learn a lot about how to sell your work in your chosen field-which you'll never learn by posting to an "anything goes" content mill.
Your 7 reasons should appear on every professional writing web site and on the bulletin board of every aspiring writer.
My only comment: several people in their comments observe that maybe its okay for new writers to work for sweatshop rates just to get some credits.
No, its not okay. First, saying you've been "published" by a content mill won't impress any prospective client or editor who's worth working for.
Second, no matter what field a new professional writer is in, there are plenty of ways to get good clips without going near a sweatshop. If you're a journalist, you can start by writing articles for small publications or web sites in your field; even if they don't pay much, they're proof that you can meet a real editor's standards. If you're a commercial writer, start with small local companies, or do a couple of pieces pro bono for a non profit. Either way, you'll also learn a lot about how to sell your work in your chosen field-which you'll never learn by posting to an "anything goes" content mill.
Interesting article, thank you! I was curious about income and found the following information, although I'm sure it's dropped off a bit since 2007:
2007 salaries
This is a list of the average salaries for a number of writing and editing professions. The figures represent typical scales for a mid-sized metropolitan area in the United States. Larger markets tend to pay more and smaller markets tend to pay less. Remember that these are typical salaries for people who are employed by other companies. There is a much greater income variation among people who freelance or own their own businesses.
Note: These figures were compiled using a variety of sources including salary information at indeed.com, salary.com, stc.org and labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov.
„X Acquisitions Editor: $37,000 to $57,000
„X Assistant Editor: $27,000 to $40,000
„X Associate Editor: 33,000 to 44,000
„X Blogger: $17,000 to $35,000
„X Copy Editor: $21,000 to 42,000
„X Copywriter: $41,000 to $63,000
„X Editor: $37,000 to $54,000
„X Editorial Assistant: $24,000 to $38,000
„X Editor-in-Chief: $51,000 to $95,000
„X E-learning Developer: $45,000 to 75,000
„X Fact Checker / Researcher: $25,000 to $37,000
„X Grant Writer: $35,000 to $47,000
„X Junior Copywriter: $29,000 to $44,000
„X Junior Technical Writer: $31,000 to $42,000
„X Legal Editor: $36,000 to $45,000
„X Managing Editor: $37,000 to 49,000
„X Managing Editor: $40,000 to $64,000
„X Medical Copy Editor: $29,000 to 44,000
„X Medical Editor: $37,000 to 52,000
„X News Editor: $25,000 to 35,000
„X Newspaper Reporter: $26,000 to $51,000
„X Online Editor: $31,000 to $50,000
„X Proofreader: $29,000 to $41,000
„X Proposal Writer: $41,000 to 69,000
„X Public Relations Writer: $34,000 to $46,000
„X Publications Assistant: $25,000 to $37,000
„X Senior Copywriter: $54,000 to $80,000
„X Senior Editor: $42,000 to $66,000
„X Senior Technical Writer: $56,000 to $81,000
„X Speech Writer: $51,000 to $73,000
„X Technical Copy Editor: $36,000 to $52,000
„X Technical Editor: $36,000 to $57,000
„X Technical Writer: $42,000 to $63,000
„X Web Editor: $22,000 to $39,000
2007 salaries
This is a list of the average salaries for a number of writing and editing professions. The figures represent typical scales for a mid-sized metropolitan area in the United States. Larger markets tend to pay more and smaller markets tend to pay less. Remember that these are typical salaries for people who are employed by other companies. There is a much greater income variation among people who freelance or own their own businesses.
Note: These figures were compiled using a variety of sources including salary information at indeed.com, salary.com, stc.org and labormarketinfo.edd.ca.gov.
„X Acquisitions Editor: $37,000 to $57,000
„X Assistant Editor: $27,000 to $40,000
„X Associate Editor: 33,000 to 44,000
„X Blogger: $17,000 to $35,000
„X Copy Editor: $21,000 to 42,000
„X Copywriter: $41,000 to $63,000
„X Editor: $37,000 to $54,000
„X Editorial Assistant: $24,000 to $38,000
„X Editor-in-Chief: $51,000 to $95,000
„X E-learning Developer: $45,000 to 75,000
„X Fact Checker / Researcher: $25,000 to $37,000
„X Grant Writer: $35,000 to $47,000
„X Junior Copywriter: $29,000 to $44,000
„X Junior Technical Writer: $31,000 to $42,000
„X Legal Editor: $36,000 to $45,000
„X Managing Editor: $37,000 to 49,000
„X Managing Editor: $40,000 to $64,000
„X Medical Copy Editor: $29,000 to 44,000
„X Medical Editor: $37,000 to 52,000
„X News Editor: $25,000 to 35,000
„X Newspaper Reporter: $26,000 to $51,000
„X Online Editor: $31,000 to $50,000
„X Proofreader: $29,000 to $41,000
„X Proposal Writer: $41,000 to 69,000
„X Public Relations Writer: $34,000 to $46,000
„X Publications Assistant: $25,000 to $37,000
„X Senior Copywriter: $54,000 to $80,000
„X Senior Editor: $42,000 to $66,000
„X Senior Technical Writer: $56,000 to $81,000
„X Speech Writer: $51,000 to $73,000
„X Technical Copy Editor: $36,000 to $52,000
„X Technical Editor: $36,000 to $57,000
„X Technical Writer: $42,000 to $63,000
„X Web Editor: $22,000 to $39,000
I blog for peanuts, some click on my ads some don\'t. I write flash fiction and have written many novels all sitting waiting to be published, but I continue to write for the love of the craft. So even though you are well accomplished remember why you started to write in the first place. Since I am destitute I don\'t mind getting thrown a few pennies, I\'m a beggar blogger panhandling in cyberspace waiting for a few coins to be thrown into my empty tin cup. Please remember the hungry and the homeless this holiday http://holdontothatdream.blogspot.com/
Interesting youtube video from Harlan Ellison right here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=harlan+ellison+pay+the+writer&search_type=&aq=f
Bravo, and thank you for taking a stand. I've been and award-winning freelance for local papers and national magazines for more than 25 years. Only in recent years (since the Internet took over) have I been offered such incredibly low rates (or no $$) for my writing. Something has to change. As I tell my writing students, we hurt every writer out there each time we agree to write for free or for peanuts. We degrade our profession. I would never walk up to a landscape truck and ask the owner to mow my lawn for free, nor would I walk into a dental office and expect a free exam. It's time experienced writers are treated with respect. If we don't respect ourselves and ask for what we deserve, writing will continue to be just a hobby at best.
Cindy La Ferle
http://www.laferle.com
Cindy La Ferle
http://www.laferle.com
I just wrote a story, "Writing for peanuts: In 'new media' circus, freebie gigs are aplenty," on Crain Communication's Web site, DetroitMakeItHere.com. Here's a link:
http://www.detroitmakeithere.com/article/20091119/DM01/911189989/-1
Since it's written for a news site, I take an even-handed approach to the story, but at least it helps spread the word about what is happening in the industry. Detroit Make It Here is a site about the creative industries.
http://www.detroitmakeithere.com/article/20091119/DM01/911189989/-1
Since it's written for a news site, I take an even-handed approach to the story, but at least it helps spread the word about what is happening in the industry. Detroit Make It Here is a site about the creative industries.
I\'ll put a link to your blog on the comments to my Detroit Make It Here story about this subject.
Hi all -- yeah, that great Harlan video has been around a while, and ever writer should be required to view it!
Interesting story on DetroitMakeItHere, Liz...thanks for linking me to it!
Carol
Interesting story on DetroitMakeItHere, Liz...thanks for linking me to it!
Carol
Tolerating the crazy quilt of ads distorting the layout, read - in its entirety, "The Googling of America: Soliciting Writer Whores to Turn Cheap Tricks" at http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/558671/the_googling_of_america_soliciting.html?cat=35.
If nothing else reaches your core, let it be this:
...
This is, after all, a global economy wherein quality, thoughtful, insightful, useful content - written in real English - is irrelevant.
...
With deference to Wilde, writing is not like sex. To assume such a position, cheapens writing - and sex. Writers write to make a difference and 'somewhere ages and ages hence,' writers' writing will.
Beyond Wilde, Shaw, Frost, and their mortal cadre, Jesus cautioned the road is wide, but the gate is narrow. That is the only true reason we write: to make it to and through the gate, being in league with a few and a guide for no small few along the way.
If nothing else reaches your core, let it be this:
...
This is, after all, a global economy wherein quality, thoughtful, insightful, useful content - written in real English - is irrelevant.
...
With deference to Wilde, writing is not like sex. To assume such a position, cheapens writing - and sex. Writers write to make a difference and 'somewhere ages and ages hence,' writers' writing will.
Beyond Wilde, Shaw, Frost, and their mortal cadre, Jesus cautioned the road is wide, but the gate is narrow. That is the only true reason we write: to make it to and through the gate, being in league with a few and a guide for no small few along the way.
Writers are good at complaining. But writers do not exist in a vacuum. Some questions:
How many excellent automotive engineers are unemployed in America? How many computer programmers? How many seamstresses? I could go on, but you get the idea.
Now, how many writers who are complaining here are members of the National Writers Union? How many drive foreign-made cars? How many have written articles or even letters to the editor criticizing the insane trade policies of this country?
For those interested, more can be found at the Economic Policy Institute (www.epi.org). I have written about the Institute, but I have no connection with it.
How many excellent automotive engineers are unemployed in America? How many computer programmers? How many seamstresses? I could go on, but you get the idea.
Now, how many writers who are complaining here are members of the National Writers Union? How many drive foreign-made cars? How many have written articles or even letters to the editor criticizing the insane trade policies of this country?
For those interested, more can be found at the Economic Policy Institute (www.epi.org). I have written about the Institute, but I have no connection with it.
Freelance writing (including blogs) is not my primary source of income but it has sure helped out during the last year and a half. Fortunately, my first paid gig into blogging seemed reasonable and I wasn't taken advantage of. Now 250+ pieces later I try to set the standard at $50 per hour. If a 500 word article paying me $100 takes me 2 hours to write, proof and invoice I am there. Most of the time I can hit that standard. Every now and then I have to do edits and rewrites because my editor didn't like the work. Usually they are right so I consider that my cost to learn.
I have found that I am being approached now by pretty good finance, accounting and business journals to write for them and they are paying a little better.
Anytime I do a audio, video podcast or interview on TV I charge them a flat $50 per hour for my time (portal to portal, if I have to go to a studio to tape).
I have found that I am being approached now by pretty good finance, accounting and business journals to write for them and they are paying a little better.
Anytime I do a audio, video podcast or interview on TV I charge them a flat $50 per hour for my time (portal to portal, if I have to go to a studio to tape).
Sam -- All I can say is GOOD FOR YOU! I know your byline well.
I'd like to hold you up as a shining example that new writers do NOT have to work for peanuts. It's really a mindset -- if you have the mindset that your time has value, you seek out and connect with writing gigs that compensate you well.
There's so much massive insecurity out there, people are afraid to send query letters or do in-person networking, or do a tiny bit and get discouraged...and they find the content sites and it seems easier. And the next thing they know, they've written 100 articles and gotten paid $150 or thereabouts, from what I've gathered that is often the outcome. And a huge amount of time that could have been spend landing good-paying clients was wasted.
It does seem like there is a small group of people out there who can get a fairly decent income out of writing for these sites -- people with popular expertise they can spout off the top of their heads, and who can write VERY FAST. For everyone else, they just seem like a dead end -- which is why I don't encourage my mentees to use them, except to maybe get a couple of initial clips. And to those who succeed at them, I ask -- how many years do you want to have to write 4 articles an HOUR? What a grind.
I'd like to hold you up as a shining example that new writers do NOT have to work for peanuts. It's really a mindset -- if you have the mindset that your time has value, you seek out and connect with writing gigs that compensate you well.
There's so much massive insecurity out there, people are afraid to send query letters or do in-person networking, or do a tiny bit and get discouraged...and they find the content sites and it seems easier. And the next thing they know, they've written 100 articles and gotten paid $150 or thereabouts, from what I've gathered that is often the outcome. And a huge amount of time that could have been spend landing good-paying clients was wasted.
It does seem like there is a small group of people out there who can get a fairly decent income out of writing for these sites -- people with popular expertise they can spout off the top of their heads, and who can write VERY FAST. For everyone else, they just seem like a dead end -- which is why I don't encourage my mentees to use them, except to maybe get a couple of initial clips. And to those who succeed at them, I ask -- how many years do you want to have to write 4 articles an HOUR? What a grind.
Let me be a bit of a contrarian here. Rates for writers will not go up. Maybe through inflation, but real rates will not increase.
Why?
Writing is a commodity. The web has blown the doors off of the labor restrictions which used to exist. Now anyone can be a writer and a large part of the population do write.
Most of the people who are offering $20 an article aren't even looking for humans to read the article so much as they want Google to read it. It is all about making articles that ranking high for search terms, not providing content for readers to enjoy.
The idea of freelance writing will die. The business infrastructure which used to justify that sort of model is dying and isn't going to come back. In a world with millions if not billions of potential content creators, the idea of having someone pay large sums of money for content makes no sense.
Freelancers are going to have to become entrepreneurs. They will have to run their own publications (blogs) and if they write for others, it will be to promote and build their own brand, not just collect a check.
Why?
Writing is a commodity. The web has blown the doors off of the labor restrictions which used to exist. Now anyone can be a writer and a large part of the population do write.
Most of the people who are offering $20 an article aren't even looking for humans to read the article so much as they want Google to read it. It is all about making articles that ranking high for search terms, not providing content for readers to enjoy.
The idea of freelance writing will die. The business infrastructure which used to justify that sort of model is dying and isn't going to come back. In a world with millions if not billions of potential content creators, the idea of having someone pay large sums of money for content makes no sense.
Freelancers are going to have to become entrepreneurs. They will have to run their own publications (blogs) and if they write for others, it will be to promote and build their own brand, not just collect a check.
I don't agree with your vision there, Gary. I'm earning more money this year than ever -- the Internet hasn't just spawned crazy $15 jobs to write articles for Google primarily to read, it's also awakened a lot of corporations to the fact that they need sophisticated content on their site, and lots of it, and they need to keep posting new content constantly! Intelligent corporations are paying well to establish themselves as thought-leading portals online.
All you have to do is ignore the low-paying content sites and do the marketing and networking that it takes to get real clients...and then deliver for them. When I work with my mentees and learn about why they're not making more...it's not that they're pitching and networking but not getting anywhere. Generally, they're not pitching and networking! Or not doing it nearly enough.
Lots of writers don't want to do that...so they write for these low-pay sites. Which if it works out to a living for them, super...but I believe for anyone with real writing-career aspirations, it's a waste of precious marketing time.
I DON'T believe in the future we will all make $15 an article. If anything, as the economy recovers here in the U.S., I expect many of these cheap-article sites to go away as folks get back to jobs. Many of these sites have busted in the past, and it'll happen again. Most companies are quickly becoming savvy to the fact that generating a bunch of Googleable but marginal, barely edited writing does not really do much to help you get and retain clients, either, so demand may also slack off.
I also personally believe that as public attention comes on the content sites (Demand is already getting some ink) and the corporations that use their content, demand may shrink as well, at least from larger companies with reputations to protect.
I think the opportunities out there are really unlimited right now, particularly for writers who can combine social-media skill with their writing abilities. New publications are also springing up, and as they get revenue traction will pay as well. The demand for non-salesy sales tools such as white papers, case studies and articles is huge. And a lot of the print pubs are paying well for exclusive-online assignments, too.
Personally, I've been looking back on this month, which was a real turning point for me. I realized I turned down three prospective clients, certainly my most refusals since the downturn began. One was a huge brand-name portal but the section that approached me was only offering $50 an article. A legal portal offered $60 an article. And a regional California career paper offered me $70 an article.
I passed on these as they are all below my personal floor of $100 an assignment and pay way less than the projects I'm already fully booked up on through December...but they're a lot higher than $15 an article, aren't they? These type of customers would probably represent a good intermediate step-up for people who're writing for less. And then they could move up to the world where articles are $300, and $750, and $1000. I accepted a $1000 article assignment last week from a national magazine.
There's a world of better-paying work out there, still happening, and a world of new, good-paying opportunities just being born through the Internet. Like they said on the X-Files, you just have to believe.
If anything staff writing is what's dying, while freelancing is on the rise, and THAT's a trend I don't think will change, in our increasingly virtual-enabled world. I feel very fortunate to be an established freelancer right now. Every editor I worked for has been laid off in the last 2 years, yet I still have work, because I'm diversified and work my relationships. Way better than having all your eggs in one job-basket.
Certainly what you're saying about writers promoting themselves is VERY true Gary. I recently gave the tip on Twitter that if you're writing online, always ask if your name in your byline can be a live-link to your Web site. You'll be surprised how often they say yes! That's an amazing source of free publicity for me these days off some very major sites. Writers need to get their sites optimized for inbound/search marketing so clients find them. We always need to be thinking about how to raise our visibility.
Write on, all!
Carol
All you have to do is ignore the low-paying content sites and do the marketing and networking that it takes to get real clients...and then deliver for them. When I work with my mentees and learn about why they're not making more...it's not that they're pitching and networking but not getting anywhere. Generally, they're not pitching and networking! Or not doing it nearly enough.
Lots of writers don't want to do that...so they write for these low-pay sites. Which if it works out to a living for them, super...but I believe for anyone with real writing-career aspirations, it's a waste of precious marketing time.
I DON'T believe in the future we will all make $15 an article. If anything, as the economy recovers here in the U.S., I expect many of these cheap-article sites to go away as folks get back to jobs. Many of these sites have busted in the past, and it'll happen again. Most companies are quickly becoming savvy to the fact that generating a bunch of Googleable but marginal, barely edited writing does not really do much to help you get and retain clients, either, so demand may also slack off.
I also personally believe that as public attention comes on the content sites (Demand is already getting some ink) and the corporations that use their content, demand may shrink as well, at least from larger companies with reputations to protect.
I think the opportunities out there are really unlimited right now, particularly for writers who can combine social-media skill with their writing abilities. New publications are also springing up, and as they get revenue traction will pay as well. The demand for non-salesy sales tools such as white papers, case studies and articles is huge. And a lot of the print pubs are paying well for exclusive-online assignments, too.
Personally, I've been looking back on this month, which was a real turning point for me. I realized I turned down three prospective clients, certainly my most refusals since the downturn began. One was a huge brand-name portal but the section that approached me was only offering $50 an article. A legal portal offered $60 an article. And a regional California career paper offered me $70 an article.
I passed on these as they are all below my personal floor of $100 an assignment and pay way less than the projects I'm already fully booked up on through December...but they're a lot higher than $15 an article, aren't they? These type of customers would probably represent a good intermediate step-up for people who're writing for less. And then they could move up to the world where articles are $300, and $750, and $1000. I accepted a $1000 article assignment last week from a national magazine.
There's a world of better-paying work out there, still happening, and a world of new, good-paying opportunities just being born through the Internet. Like they said on the X-Files, you just have to believe.
If anything staff writing is what's dying, while freelancing is on the rise, and THAT's a trend I don't think will change, in our increasingly virtual-enabled world. I feel very fortunate to be an established freelancer right now. Every editor I worked for has been laid off in the last 2 years, yet I still have work, because I'm diversified and work my relationships. Way better than having all your eggs in one job-basket.
Certainly what you're saying about writers promoting themselves is VERY true Gary. I recently gave the tip on Twitter that if you're writing online, always ask if your name in your byline can be a live-link to your Web site. You'll be surprised how often they say yes! That's an amazing source of free publicity for me these days off some very major sites. Writers need to get their sites optimized for inbound/search marketing so clients find them. We always need to be thinking about how to raise our visibility.
Write on, all!
Carol
I always took the attitude that it wasn't my job to make others rich at my expense (or that or my fellow writers). I'm comfortable turning down $15 gigs (that usually want unfettered rights to my work and a lot of extra work to promote their "brand" on my part). As Carol so rightly points out, accepting this type of work only brings more of it your way and hurts other writers by helping further depress pay rates.
There are some decent-paying freelance gigs out there for quality writers, but it does take some time and luck to find them these days.
Meanwhile, writers who were successful in print need to change, grow, and learn new skills if they want to survive as writers.
I don't entirely agree with Gary in that we need to totally accept the idea that writing is a "commodity" that no one will ever pay decent rates for in the future...but he's correct in that writers need to be "entrepreneurs" and learn how to publish themselves, push themselves to learn new skills, and promote their work as they never had to do in the past to succeed now.
If I'm going to write for free (or nearly so), I'm going to write for my own blog, retain my rights, explore ways to publish sell own work, and promote my own "brand". If I need to eat now, well, that's why they invented "day jobs" (and yes, I have one of those).
The freelance jobs and other opportunities I've landed in the past year all came (at least partially, if not entirely) as a result of my having my own blog and publicizing my own writing.
The insecurity factor Carol mentioned upstream also plays a large part in many writers torpedoing themselves before they even get started writing online. My conventional writers' group has a couple of folks who have barely managed to read and comment on a few blogs...let alone get involved and learn what they need to do to move themselves forward. They're still hanging on to their ever-dwindling freelance print gigs and bemoaning their fate. "I have to get online, but I don't want to" is what I hear every week from them.
Midwest Guest-a regional travel blog
http://www.midwestguest.com
There are some decent-paying freelance gigs out there for quality writers, but it does take some time and luck to find them these days.
Meanwhile, writers who were successful in print need to change, grow, and learn new skills if they want to survive as writers.
I don't entirely agree with Gary in that we need to totally accept the idea that writing is a "commodity" that no one will ever pay decent rates for in the future...but he's correct in that writers need to be "entrepreneurs" and learn how to publish themselves, push themselves to learn new skills, and promote their work as they never had to do in the past to succeed now.
If I'm going to write for free (or nearly so), I'm going to write for my own blog, retain my rights, explore ways to publish sell own work, and promote my own "brand". If I need to eat now, well, that's why they invented "day jobs" (and yes, I have one of those).
The freelance jobs and other opportunities I've landed in the past year all came (at least partially, if not entirely) as a result of my having my own blog and publicizing my own writing.
The insecurity factor Carol mentioned upstream also plays a large part in many writers torpedoing themselves before they even get started writing online. My conventional writers' group has a couple of folks who have barely managed to read and comment on a few blogs...let alone get involved and learn what they need to do to move themselves forward. They're still hanging on to their ever-dwindling freelance print gigs and bemoaning their fate. "I have to get online, but I don't want to" is what I hear every week from them.
Midwest Guest-a regional travel blog
http://www.midwestguest.com
Hi Dominique --
There's a whole category of writing pros who are in exactly the boat you describe. They're sitting around, bemoaning what's happening in print and doing nothing to launch themselves into the great new opportunities that are out there online. I think journalists who just want to work for a daily paper are in the worst situation of any category.
This moment really belongs to those who are open and flexible about what types of writing they're willing to do, and what new media they're willing to learn. Those that are open are getting online article assignments, social-media projects...there's a lot of great new stuff and some of it pays just great.
Thanks for writing all -- really enjoying all the comments!
Carol
There's a whole category of writing pros who are in exactly the boat you describe. They're sitting around, bemoaning what's happening in print and doing nothing to launch themselves into the great new opportunities that are out there online. I think journalists who just want to work for a daily paper are in the worst situation of any category.
This moment really belongs to those who are open and flexible about what types of writing they're willing to do, and what new media they're willing to learn. Those that are open are getting online article assignments, social-media projects...there's a lot of great new stuff and some of it pays just great.
Thanks for writing all -- really enjoying all the comments!
Carol
Hats off--in the air--to you and to Jenn Mattern and to others who are standing up! I felt kinda out there the last two yrs bemoaning this situation--people have slagged me, too. Badge of honor! Let\\\'s see how many things we can turn down each week! New paradigm! I turned down one so far.
Great article. I am a freelance event services consultant, and i get questions regarding the same things all the time. Thanks for all the great advice. It is the same advice i give my colleages.
check out my blog chadbordes.com
check out my blog chadbordes.com
I'm a brand new writer - sort of.
I've written for years. I've blogged, and blogged, and blogged. I'm a prolific forum poster and have written some serious multi-part epic threads on various topics that interest me. I have no real specialty. For me writing is a form of learning. I write about what I want to know more often than I do about what I do know.
I've been asked through the years how I learned to be a writer, and I've always responded that I'm not a writer, I'm just a guy who writes.
I notice a theme in these comments. Those who seem able to demand $50 and better for an article, are those who have some specialized knowledge field they are writing in. I'm a generalist. I dropped out of school to be a soldier. My saving grace in all of this is some innate ability God hardwired into my brain for distilling information and making is usable and accessible.
I recently quit my job and determined to be a writer. I am a writer. But I must confess that in order to be that I am taking those $5 article jobs and I'm even struggling through a $170 for 100 job right now, which I swear I will never do again.
I'm trying to figure out where and how I can secure $50 (honestly, I'll be a pig in a poke at $25 right now) and as soon as I find I can reliably land them, I'll set that kind of limit. But until I can figure this out, for $5 I am writing. I am a writer. That is an infinitely better thing than the thing I was two months ago.
I did take a subscription to Writersmarket.com late last weeks in hope against hope that I can find markets there that will see me well and away from oDesk.
Love the blog, and hope to join you in your pledge soon.
I've written for years. I've blogged, and blogged, and blogged. I'm a prolific forum poster and have written some serious multi-part epic threads on various topics that interest me. I have no real specialty. For me writing is a form of learning. I write about what I want to know more often than I do about what I do know.
I've been asked through the years how I learned to be a writer, and I've always responded that I'm not a writer, I'm just a guy who writes.
I notice a theme in these comments. Those who seem able to demand $50 and better for an article, are those who have some specialized knowledge field they are writing in. I'm a generalist. I dropped out of school to be a soldier. My saving grace in all of this is some innate ability God hardwired into my brain for distilling information and making is usable and accessible.
I recently quit my job and determined to be a writer. I am a writer. But I must confess that in order to be that I am taking those $5 article jobs and I'm even struggling through a $170 for 100 job right now, which I swear I will never do again.
I'm trying to figure out where and how I can secure $50 (honestly, I'll be a pig in a poke at $25 right now) and as soon as I find I can reliably land them, I'll set that kind of limit. But until I can figure this out, for $5 I am writing. I am a writer. That is an infinitely better thing than the thing I was two months ago.
I did take a subscription to Writersmarket.com late last weeks in hope against hope that I can find markets there that will see me well and away from oDesk.
Love the blog, and hope to join you in your pledge soon.
we are in a race to the bottom
too many writers
too little work
just cause you wont work for peanuts or chickenfeed
doesnt mean that thousands of others wont
and they will continue to drive rates lower
as the keep underbidding each other
so they can get "published" and gain "exposure"
too many writers
too little work
just cause you wont work for peanuts or chickenfeed
doesnt mean that thousands of others wont
and they will continue to drive rates lower
as the keep underbidding each other
so they can get "published" and gain "exposure"
I love your attitude, Dane! Certainly when I started out I wrote things for $35, or $10 sometimes. Having the drive to move up is what's important.
Glad to hear you got the Writers Market - if you didn't already, buy it with online support -- best extra $10 ever spent as you get their updates of new listings (good sign markets might actually want to hire some writers!), and can search by pay levels...their search engine is super-useful for generating ideas for markets to pitch.
Keep at it -- stop looking on oDesk and do some cold calling or in-person networking instead, and find some companies that need content. Sounds like you have a portfolio by now, so you're ready to move up!
I do mentor folks just like you, so let me know if I can help!
Carol
Glad to hear you got the Writers Market - if you didn't already, buy it with online support -- best extra $10 ever spent as you get their updates of new listings (good sign markets might actually want to hire some writers!), and can search by pay levels...their search engine is super-useful for generating ideas for markets to pitch.
Keep at it -- stop looking on oDesk and do some cold calling or in-person networking instead, and find some companies that need content. Sounds like you have a portfolio by now, so you're ready to move up!
I do mentor folks just like you, so let me know if I can help!
Carol
Carol,
First of all, don\\\'t stop writing! Your unique and well-spoken voice needs to be heard. Thank you for bringing up this difficult and frustrating situation. It\\\'s hard to convince people that writing is an art form - especially when they can pay someone $.01 per word. The only reason I\\\'ve taken on lower paying work was because the person asking was a friend. And once the work was done, repaid me via quality referrals and testimonials. I do hope you\\\'re right that we\\\'ve hit bottom. I honestly don\\\'t know how much lower it can go. My one piece of advice is to look for ways to create income streams using your writing as the basis - but allows for you to not have to be fully present for it to function.
First of all, don\\\'t stop writing! Your unique and well-spoken voice needs to be heard. Thank you for bringing up this difficult and frustrating situation. It\\\'s hard to convince people that writing is an art form - especially when they can pay someone $.01 per word. The only reason I\\\'ve taken on lower paying work was because the person asking was a friend. And once the work was done, repaid me via quality referrals and testimonials. I do hope you\\\'re right that we\\\'ve hit bottom. I honestly don\\\'t know how much lower it can go. My one piece of advice is to look for ways to create income streams using your writing as the basis - but allows for you to not have to be fully present for it to function.
Have to respond to speedball up there too. I don't think we're all competing with writers who write for mills. It's like two separate universes really, this junk SEO article content, and the rest of the writing world for magazines, thought-leading web sites, corporations They need exceptional, expert content. It hasn't much affected my rates -- I just landed a large project a couple weeks ago that's all around $1 a word.
Yes, if I wanted to write SEO stuff in a competition with others, the pay likely will stay low on that. Until all the companies realize the articles aren't actually helping them get clients that much! And that they need real expertise delivered to their customers to build their relationships.
Many experts are already out there evangelizing about the uselessness of junk content. Once that sinks in, the demand for REAL quality writers (as opposed to the kind Craigslist posters keep asking for!) is going to EXPLODE.
Also, a lot of the cheap-site writers are going to go back to work hopefully in the next year or so. A lot will change...and I'm going to stick with my belief that it's going to change for the better. MORE opportunity for those with real talent ahead!
Carol
Yes, if I wanted to write SEO stuff in a competition with others, the pay likely will stay low on that. Until all the companies realize the articles aren't actually helping them get clients that much! And that they need real expertise delivered to their customers to build their relationships.
Many experts are already out there evangelizing about the uselessness of junk content. Once that sinks in, the demand for REAL quality writers (as opposed to the kind Craigslist posters keep asking for!) is going to EXPLODE.
Also, a lot of the cheap-site writers are going to go back to work hopefully in the next year or so. A lot will change...and I'm going to stick with my belief that it's going to change for the better. MORE opportunity for those with real talent ahead!
Carol
If it takes that long to write, then I wouldn't do it either. I write $15-$30 web-content, but they take about 20 minutes. I work 3-4 hours a day and support our whole family of 8 people. You have to have standards, and I agree, $8 an hour is NOT worth it.
Love this and am passing it on to my writers group (some of whom write for free just to say they've been published). After ten years I wouldn't dream of writing for $15/hour.
Angela Dion, Author
LET'S TALK ABOUT RACE: A workbook for safe, honest and productive group discussions
Angela Dion, Author
LET'S TALK ABOUT RACE: A workbook for safe, honest and productive group discussions
I'm glad to see other writers as disgusted as I've been with the insulting rates being offered nowadays for specialized, labor-intensive writing. I made more per article in the 1980s, when I was starting out, than many of these content mills are offering today.
It's apparently the same for full-time editorial jobs, at least in Washington, DC, where I lived from 1985-2007. The giveaway in a job ad is when they advertise for "2-3 years experience" yet the level of skills and knowledge they require are far beyond what anyone with such limited experience can possibly offer.
It happened time after time: A young recruiter calls after I apply for a job because, after all, I have all and more of the experience they want. The first question--this is also a big cultural shift, as it used to be, in the polite old days, that money was discussed only after a job offer was made--is, "How much do you expect to be paid?"
They always balk at what someone, like me, with the actual experience needed to do the job they are seeking to fill, expects to be paid after 20+ years in the field. Usually that's the end of the "interview."
That was why I decided it was time for a career change, time to do something other than write and edit for a living--and to return to doing it more for the love of it.
Well, in this hideous economy I'm back to ramping up my consulting work as a writer/editor (wish me luck!!). I've found at least one gig, a new Website sponsored by a major national organization, that is paying quite well for articles and assigning articles on a regular basis. I happen to be friends with the editor, which is how I know about it.
But I am with the rest of you: I will not, and can't afford to, work for these insulting coolie wages.
It's apparently the same for full-time editorial jobs, at least in Washington, DC, where I lived from 1985-2007. The giveaway in a job ad is when they advertise for "2-3 years experience" yet the level of skills and knowledge they require are far beyond what anyone with such limited experience can possibly offer.
It happened time after time: A young recruiter calls after I apply for a job because, after all, I have all and more of the experience they want. The first question--this is also a big cultural shift, as it used to be, in the polite old days, that money was discussed only after a job offer was made--is, "How much do you expect to be paid?"
They always balk at what someone, like me, with the actual experience needed to do the job they are seeking to fill, expects to be paid after 20+ years in the field. Usually that's the end of the "interview."
That was why I decided it was time for a career change, time to do something other than write and edit for a living--and to return to doing it more for the love of it.
Well, in this hideous economy I'm back to ramping up my consulting work as a writer/editor (wish me luck!!). I've found at least one gig, a new Website sponsored by a major national organization, that is paying quite well for articles and assigning articles on a regular basis. I happen to be friends with the editor, which is how I know about it.
But I am with the rest of you: I will not, and can't afford to, work for these insulting coolie wages.
Unfortunately, the market for freelance work will be what it will be. I applaud your resolve and agree with all your points. In the current \"everyone is their own publisher\" reality of the internet, it is up to us as writers is create unique content and bring it to market in a way that compensates us fairly.
The key here is not only the quality of the content, but also how effectively we do the \"bring it to market\" piece. For me, writing books and all the promotion that goes with it, is the best \"biz model\" for what I do.
I\'m hoping to pay few bills by selling my 1st book off my blog. \"Relix, the Book\" is published by Hal Leonard Publishing/Backbeat Books. The Relix book is the best of Relix Magazine\'s first 25 years of covering the Grateful Dead and many other rock and roll bands from the \'70s and 80\'s. It is full color on every page with art, photos, interviews and lots of other cool stuff. It really is nice, even if I say so myself!
I\'ve been posting short 1-2 minute video on my blog to connect with my audience. I\'d love to get your feedback! http://bigalterego.wordpress.com
Yes, this is a shameless plug for what I\'m doing. Like you I am trying to survive as a writer. Please let me know how I can help you!!
The key here is not only the quality of the content, but also how effectively we do the \"bring it to market\" piece. For me, writing books and all the promotion that goes with it, is the best \"biz model\" for what I do.
I\'m hoping to pay few bills by selling my 1st book off my blog. \"Relix, the Book\" is published by Hal Leonard Publishing/Backbeat Books. The Relix book is the best of Relix Magazine\'s first 25 years of covering the Grateful Dead and many other rock and roll bands from the \'70s and 80\'s. It is full color on every page with art, photos, interviews and lots of other cool stuff. It really is nice, even if I say so myself!
I\'ve been posting short 1-2 minute video on my blog to connect with my audience. I\'d love to get your feedback! http://bigalterego.wordpress.com
Yes, this is a shameless plug for what I\'m doing. Like you I am trying to survive as a writer. Please let me know how I can help you!!
Thank you for writing this! I\'m a full-time writer at a newspaper right now but will be leaving in another month or so. I have some long-term freelance gigs still, but I was hoping to add more in case my gap in employment is too long. I signed up with Demand Studios and then found out they pay between $7 and $15 per article. Their standards are similar to what I have at the paper: multiple sources, researched facts with links, at least 500 words. I would have to write 10 to 12 articles to make what I do in one day at the paper...where I turn in ONE story a day. Lame.
It's fun to wake up to more great responses to this blog! I have definitely struck a nerve. And thanks for all the retweets, forwards and repostings.
I dig what you're doing, Lee! Books and ebooks are a great way to monetize your content and keep more of the money for you. If anyone hasn't checked out Peter Bowerman of the Well-Fed Writer, read his "How to Turn One Book Into a Full Time Living."
Lisa, I'd love to know your secrets! By my calculations you are supporting a family of 8 on likely $45K a year or less. Where do you live? I'm assuming somewhere very affordable!
But the question to ask yourself is, how proud are you of the 3 articles an hour you write? And do you want to have to write 3 articles an hour for the rest of your days? What if you could write two really awesome articles a week and make the same money?
I'm here to encourage writers to work smarter!
Carol
I dig what you're doing, Lee! Books and ebooks are a great way to monetize your content and keep more of the money for you. If anyone hasn't checked out Peter Bowerman of the Well-Fed Writer, read his "How to Turn One Book Into a Full Time Living."
Lisa, I'd love to know your secrets! By my calculations you are supporting a family of 8 on likely $45K a year or less. Where do you live? I'm assuming somewhere very affordable!
But the question to ask yourself is, how proud are you of the 3 articles an hour you write? And do you want to have to write 3 articles an hour for the rest of your days? What if you could write two really awesome articles a week and make the same money?
I'm here to encourage writers to work smarter!
Carol
I\\\\\\\'m in total agreement. I\\\\\\\'ve been a professional writer for 25 years and until 18 months ago I always thought that my type of job was relatively secure despite the ups and downs of our economy. Sure, engineering and manufacturing jobs might go overseas, but writing for the U.S. market? Never!
Now, everywhere I look, content aggregators are seeking writers willing to bust their b***s for pennies. And the offshore writers are apparently eager to work for even less. All they\\\\\\\'re doing is ensuring that writers worldwide will remain poor and powerless. There are days when my young adult son, who works at an office supply retailer part-time, makes more money than I do... and he gets health insurance, 401(k) retirement, and an employee stock purchase plan!
Now, everywhere I look, content aggregators are seeking writers willing to bust their b***s for pennies. And the offshore writers are apparently eager to work for even less. All they\\\\\\\'re doing is ensuring that writers worldwide will remain poor and powerless. There are days when my young adult son, who works at an office supply retailer part-time, makes more money than I do... and he gets health insurance, 401(k) retirement, and an employee stock purchase plan!
I haven't seen anyone mention word count. I write blogs at $25.00 a pop. It takes me less than an hour to whip out 200 words. In my book, $25.00 an hour isn\'t that bad an income. I do about two a day. I don't think that's too bad a deal especially when I do very little research. Any responses?
I guess on the face of it that sounds like an OK rate, Kim. But the problem is, as a freelancer you have a lot of costs, and you can only get so many billable hours. You have to pay your own health insurance, life insurance, disability and on and on. You want to take vacation weeks, which are also unpaid. Personally I try to keep my rate up near $100 an hour. I take some articles that actually pay $100, but can be done in an hour, so my rate stays the same.
You're only making $50 a day, from what you've written? Sounds like you can only find a couple of these $25-blog assignments a day. That's no living. If it's a side income and you're happy to make an extra couple hundred a week, then great for you. My focus is really on writers who need to make a good, full-time living and feed their families off this work. And $25 a billable hour won't do that in most major U.S. metro areas.
You're only making $50 a day, from what you've written? Sounds like you can only find a couple of these $25-blog assignments a day. That's no living. If it's a side income and you're happy to make an extra couple hundred a week, then great for you. My focus is really on writers who need to make a good, full-time living and feed their families off this work. And $25 a billable hour won't do that in most major U.S. metro areas.
I totally agree! The other day I saw a listing for "expert writers" for 1,000 to 2,000 word articles, master's degree level, for $2 to $3 for the entire article, and that is if you can get at least 1,000 page views! One of the topics they wanted covered was cold fusion. I wrote them a comment, but of course did not get a reply.
Your bold article on this subject would surely open eyes for all those who are ignorant!! I\'d love to have a copy of your book and would like to see what you offer when you tutor your writers. I am interested!
Well done. I have the \"7/11\" test for my assignments - if I could make more money working a shift at 7/11 (or any other convenience store) I don\'t write for that sum.
Hi, just wanted to let you know that I quoted your list in an email I sent to someone who asked me to blog for $15 a post.
With it, I sent a little note to the site owner saying, "Many site owners don’t realize that asking a professional writer to write for $15 a post is like asking a CEO of a company if she would facilitate some negotiations for you to build name recognition for herself and earn $15 a meeting. You may not be aware, but your rate is not a rate that will attract professionals. Professionals write concisely, they research their audiences and their content, they know how to write for the way people read online, many can do SEO research so that you have a blog that is actually written using the search terms that people use, making it far more search engine friendly than amateur blogs. With respect, you may want to consider changing your proposed fees, or send your appeal to amateur writers who are just happy to have a forum..."
Thanks for writing the list!
With it, I sent a little note to the site owner saying, "Many site owners don’t realize that asking a professional writer to write for $15 a post is like asking a CEO of a company if she would facilitate some negotiations for you to build name recognition for herself and earn $15 a meeting. You may not be aware, but your rate is not a rate that will attract professionals. Professionals write concisely, they research their audiences and their content, they know how to write for the way people read online, many can do SEO research so that you have a blog that is actually written using the search terms that people use, making it far more search engine friendly than amateur blogs. With respect, you may want to consider changing your proposed fees, or send your appeal to amateur writers who are just happy to have a forum..."
Thanks for writing the list!
Kim, I think you need to wander over to my most recent blog on the best thing you can do about low-pay job ads: http://caroltice.com/blog/29
Don\'t let these type of listings suck any of your energy!
But thanks for circulating this list!
Carol
Don\'t let these type of listings suck any of your energy!
But thanks for circulating this list!
Carol
Wow, did I come across this discussion at a perfect time. I'm not a new writer (have more than 10 years' experience), but I'm new to the freelance/"can I support myself like this" aspect of it. As I try to wrap my head around the "how" of it, questions around rates bubble up pretty darn fast. I'm so glad to get all this feedback and wisdom to use as cautionary tales and guidance as I move forward. Thank you, Carol, and all!
Amen Sister! I just opened my emails and read your article. I LOVED IT-
thank you for speaking out for all of us freelance writers. Hopefully people will get tired of reading the same "information" on blogs and return to the real world of journalism.
Sincerely,
Carol Kalvelage
thank you for speaking out for all of us freelance writers. Hopefully people will get tired of reading the same "information" on blogs and return to the real world of journalism.
Sincerely,
Carol Kalvelage
Writer A spends 4 hours a day working. 3 hours of his time are spent researching. One hour is spent writing. He makes a total of 100 dollars for his total time invested.
Writer B spends 4 hours a day working. 4 hours of his time are spent writing for a place like Demand Studios. At the end of the day he makes a total of 100 dollars for his total time invested.
Writer A and Writer B make the same wage. Neither is "better" than the other. Writer A might claim they are making "more" than Writer B, but they are not only complete incorrect, they show a complete lack of understanding how the industry works as a whole.
Per word, per article, per hour...it doesn't really matter. What matters is the end result. If I'm making 80k a year and you are making 80k a year, what does it matter if I "wrote" 8 hours a day and you researched 5 and "wrote" for 3 (still putting in a total of 8 hours)?
It doesn't.
Writer B spends 4 hours a day working. 4 hours of his time are spent writing for a place like Demand Studios. At the end of the day he makes a total of 100 dollars for his total time invested.
Writer A and Writer B make the same wage. Neither is "better" than the other. Writer A might claim they are making "more" than Writer B, but they are not only complete incorrect, they show a complete lack of understanding how the industry works as a whole.
Per word, per article, per hour...it doesn't really matter. What matters is the end result. If I'm making 80k a year and you are making 80k a year, what does it matter if I "wrote" 8 hours a day and you researched 5 and "wrote" for 3 (still putting in a total of 8 hours)?
It doesn't.
It's my experience that very few writers can earn a professional wage on places like Demand, T.W. -- you have to be very, very fast. I gather you are, so great for you -- if you are proud of articles you can write in 20 minutes and want to build a whole career around that and the pay pencils out for you as a good hourly wage, then good for you.
Most of the writers I've met who are on these sites have very low earnings there and want to get off and into more traditional good-paying markets.
And as I recall, you said you're making around $50K a year, not $80K. I guess my point is with my method of getting traditional clients, your earning potential is really unlimited -- good copywriters can make more than $200,000 a year. Billing around $100 an hour, I believe you can work far fewer hours and enjoy more work/life balance and have a great income. With the content sites, you can only write so fast and so many hours. Burnout seems to be a pretty big factor.
I think competing with Third World residents for $15 jobs isn't the direction I want to take my writing career, and I don't recommend it to others. If you'll check my petition site, you'll see I'm not alone in that thinking. I encourage quality writers to avoid being distracted by these sites and to focus on building a diversified freelance career where they make a living wage.
Where will you be the day Demand goes bust, T.W.?
Most of the writers I've met who are on these sites have very low earnings there and want to get off and into more traditional good-paying markets.
And as I recall, you said you're making around $50K a year, not $80K. I guess my point is with my method of getting traditional clients, your earning potential is really unlimited -- good copywriters can make more than $200,000 a year. Billing around $100 an hour, I believe you can work far fewer hours and enjoy more work/life balance and have a great income. With the content sites, you can only write so fast and so many hours. Burnout seems to be a pretty big factor.
I think competing with Third World residents for $15 jobs isn't the direction I want to take my writing career, and I don't recommend it to others. If you'll check my petition site, you'll see I'm not alone in that thinking. I encourage quality writers to avoid being distracted by these sites and to focus on building a diversified freelance career where they make a living wage.
Where will you be the day Demand goes bust, T.W.?
I'd like to direct everyone's attention -- especially you, T.W. -- to this blog by Michael Stelzner about how he makes $500,000 a year from writing. Ain't gonna happen on Demand et al...
If you set high earning goals, you tend to achieve them...great advice here from Michael.
If you set high earning goals, you tend to achieve them...great advice here from Michael.
I am a newcomer and found all the information here to be full of great information. From what I gather to write for the content sites is a choice and what may work for some doesn\'t work for others. I will say that a valuable gem to learn as someone getting started is that I can and should hold a high standard for myself, my work and my time. I am worth it as the advertisement tells me!
Right on, Alice!
I have to apologize, the link just above is no good, and it's not Michael Stelzner talking, it's copywriting great Robert Bly. Here's a better link.
I have to apologize, the link just above is no good, and it's not Michael Stelzner talking, it's copywriting great Robert Bly. Here's a better link.
Like so many others...thank you.
Thank you for your insight and for your passion, it reawakened in me the hope to make it in this world full of scams and people ready to use you.
Someone said that writers are the only profession that gets treated like this but I´m "lucky" enough to also be in the music industry and an actor and you would be surprised at how many times I have been offered a gig for food. So when I started out writing I was not surprised at all hearing things like "You are lucky that we don´t charge you for publishing your article" because I have seen this kind of behavior for a long time.
I also noticed the comment from the "beggar" saying that he writes things for coins and I do understand him but I remember what the late Jim Rohn said to me once, as he said to so many other people, "work harder on yourself then on your job and you can make a fortune"
Thank you all and I´m looking forward to reading more
Thank you for your insight and for your passion, it reawakened in me the hope to make it in this world full of scams and people ready to use you.
Someone said that writers are the only profession that gets treated like this but I´m "lucky" enough to also be in the music industry and an actor and you would be surprised at how many times I have been offered a gig for food. So when I started out writing I was not surprised at all hearing things like "You are lucky that we don´t charge you for publishing your article" because I have seen this kind of behavior for a long time.
I also noticed the comment from the "beggar" saying that he writes things for coins and I do understand him but I remember what the late Jim Rohn said to me once, as he said to so many other people, "work harder on yourself then on your job and you can make a fortune"
Thank you all and I´m looking forward to reading more
Thanks for shedding light on this problem. I would get furious when I would come across an ad to write 500 word articles for $1 to $2 an article, along with their list of demands for writing the articles and you don\'t even get a byline. Unfortunately, there are writers that actually accept this pathetic pay. I take pride in my writing and spend several hours researching and writing my articles. It is such an insult to writers to expect us to write for poverty wages. As a writer, your compassion, commitment and time are worth a lot more than that.
Interestingly, not only are the offers for blog posts getting lower and lower, there seem to be a lot of requests for "free" blog posts in return for links. Or, worse, offers to take your entire blog and incorporate it within or merge it with another blog. I'd love to hear what everyone thinks about that. Is it better to maintain your own identity and voice via your own blog, and perhaps not earn any real money from it but establish your presence, or "sell out" in the interest of having a greater critical mass by merger, so to speak.
Hi Meryl --
A couple interesting questions there! Personally I can't agree that blog prices are getting lower and lower, since the prices I've been paid this year have gone steadily up with each client I got, until finally now I'm just finishing a 20-blog project that paid at several hundred dollars apiece, on a rush. It's all about who you're blogging for...in my case, major corporations and magazines.
As far as how to deploy your free blogs, I love that question and I'm going to answer it on an upcoming blog here at Make a Living Writing, so subscribe and stay tuned!
A couple interesting questions there! Personally I can't agree that blog prices are getting lower and lower, since the prices I've been paid this year have gone steadily up with each client I got, until finally now I'm just finishing a 20-blog project that paid at several hundred dollars apiece, on a rush. It's all about who you're blogging for...in my case, major corporations and magazines.
As far as how to deploy your free blogs, I love that question and I'm going to answer it on an upcoming blog here at Make a Living Writing, so subscribe and stay tuned!
Carol-
I just wanted to say 'thank you so very much!' This blog is really an inspiration! I only began trying to start up my freelancing career earlier this year and I was astounded at what companies were offering to write 500-word articles! I am now ashamed to say I was suckered in at the beginning, a little self-conscious of my own abilities, into writing numerous articles for as little as $10 each. It took a little time, a little more self-confidence in my writing abilities, and research to discover that I was wrong for ever accepting work at those rates! I was really just helping someone else make lots of money while signing over all of my rights to the work. What a horrible introduction to the world of freelance. I'm still trying to find my way, trying to find the right people to write for in order to make this my new career. I'm a relatively new military spouse and want this to be my new 'portable' career that will move with me while my husband traverses the globe...literally! We're in Germany now!
After reading your blog post, though, I can see that my standards are still fluctuating...not sure where to be at this point. But, at least now I have a foot-hold to start from! Thank you, again!
~Jodie
I just wanted to say 'thank you so very much!' This blog is really an inspiration! I only began trying to start up my freelancing career earlier this year and I was astounded at what companies were offering to write 500-word articles! I am now ashamed to say I was suckered in at the beginning, a little self-conscious of my own abilities, into writing numerous articles for as little as $10 each. It took a little time, a little more self-confidence in my writing abilities, and research to discover that I was wrong for ever accepting work at those rates! I was really just helping someone else make lots of money while signing over all of my rights to the work. What a horrible introduction to the world of freelance. I'm still trying to find my way, trying to find the right people to write for in order to make this my new career. I'm a relatively new military spouse and want this to be my new 'portable' career that will move with me while my husband traverses the globe...literally! We're in Germany now!
After reading your blog post, though, I can see that my standards are still fluctuating...not sure where to be at this point. But, at least now I have a foot-hold to start from! Thank you, again!
~Jodie
Hi Jodie --
Since this post, I have been contacted by so many writers who write at these $10-25 per article rates. Some of them are very defensive and even insulted that I've suggested they deserve to earn much more! But most are like you -- they try the mills and quickly realize they aren't getting a fair wage.
You're doing great -- you've gotten some clips, and realized your pay is inappropriately low. Now start looking for move-up markets! I'll be writing more than one post on that topic over at the WM Freelance Community in January, outlining steps to take to graduate to better-paying markets. So subscribe here, and over there, and stay tuned! And keep writing.
The economy is turning around, and '10 is going to be the time to raise rates and find new clients. If you're in Germany, you'd think you could write and sell some great travel articles! There are so many good-paying markets out there for anyone who's willing to market their business and wants to produce unique, quality work.
Carol
Since this post, I have been contacted by so many writers who write at these $10-25 per article rates. Some of them are very defensive and even insulted that I've suggested they deserve to earn much more! But most are like you -- they try the mills and quickly realize they aren't getting a fair wage.
You're doing great -- you've gotten some clips, and realized your pay is inappropriately low. Now start looking for move-up markets! I'll be writing more than one post on that topic over at the WM Freelance Community in January, outlining steps to take to graduate to better-paying markets. So subscribe here, and over there, and stay tuned! And keep writing.
The economy is turning around, and '10 is going to be the time to raise rates and find new clients. If you're in Germany, you'd think you could write and sell some great travel articles! There are so many good-paying markets out there for anyone who's willing to market their business and wants to produce unique, quality work.
Carol
Hi, Carol.
I saw this post via "Writer's Weekly." This is a brilliant post, and I'm so glad you made it!
I used to work part-time as a freelancer--the real kind, not for a mill. Back when I first, first started out, I DID consider these mills, but I quickly passed them over. Sure, I do not have years and years of experience as a freelancer; however, I have some decent clips, and I deem myself worthy of more than a few cents an hour. Sure, I may charge/ask less, because I am less experienced, but I will NOT give it away for such awful wages.
The other thing, which I see has been pointed out, that is bad about these mills is not only is the standard poorer--much poorer, over all--but a lot of the information is inaccurate, and in some cases, this is dangerous. In one case, I read an article that was supposed to be giving advice on cat care. The information offered would have actually potentially HARMED a cat, had it been used! That was pretty much the nail in that coffin for me.
I've been out of freelancing for a few years--personal issues, health, time--and I'm starting to want to try to dip my toes back in, so I will look at sites and job offers from time to time, just to see what's out there. I think content mills are ultimately bad for EVERYONE, because the quality of the writing and the quality of the information is so bad.
I'm also totally with you and everyone else on the whole driving down wages thing. It's crazy-making!
Thank you for putting these ideas down so beautifully!
Jennifer Moore
JenniferLynn Productions, LLC
I saw this post via "Writer's Weekly." This is a brilliant post, and I'm so glad you made it!
I used to work part-time as a freelancer--the real kind, not for a mill. Back when I first, first started out, I DID consider these mills, but I quickly passed them over. Sure, I do not have years and years of experience as a freelancer; however, I have some decent clips, and I deem myself worthy of more than a few cents an hour. Sure, I may charge/ask less, because I am less experienced, but I will NOT give it away for such awful wages.
The other thing, which I see has been pointed out, that is bad about these mills is not only is the standard poorer--much poorer, over all--but a lot of the information is inaccurate, and in some cases, this is dangerous. In one case, I read an article that was supposed to be giving advice on cat care. The information offered would have actually potentially HARMED a cat, had it been used! That was pretty much the nail in that coffin for me.
I've been out of freelancing for a few years--personal issues, health, time--and I'm starting to want to try to dip my toes back in, so I will look at sites and job offers from time to time, just to see what's out there. I think content mills are ultimately bad for EVERYONE, because the quality of the writing and the quality of the information is so bad.
I'm also totally with you and everyone else on the whole driving down wages thing. It's crazy-making!
Thank you for putting these ideas down so beautifully!
Jennifer Moore
JenniferLynn Productions, LLC
Hi Jennifer --
Thanks for the support. But as you can read in my guest post The 5 Kinds of People Who Should Write for Content Mills, over at About Freelance Writing, I think there are some types of writers for whom content mills work great. I just don\'t believe they\'re for anyone who\'s serious about writing as a craft, or as a good-paying career. But they\'re great for a quick (usually tiny) paycheck, among other things. The bad-information issue is another problem entirely, and one of the reasons I think these sites may not last.
You can also read how proud some folks are of writing for mills, and see claims that they earn a very good living on them writing 4-7 articles per hour...usually defined as about $30-$40 an hour. I teach people to aim for $100 an hour as a freelancer.
One of the reasons I caution people against getting too attached to the mill model is I think it\'s going to change a lot. Just today, oDesk joined Demand Studios in announcing it will offer its freelancers health and other benefits. Why? These sites can\'t attract quality writers, so they\'re having to improve their offers. Soon I believe that will spill over into higher rates...though still not high enough to make them worth your while!
See my blog More on \'The Day the Content Mills Died\' for more info on how this marketplace is changing.
Thanks for the support. But as you can read in my guest post The 5 Kinds of People Who Should Write for Content Mills, over at About Freelance Writing, I think there are some types of writers for whom content mills work great. I just don\'t believe they\'re for anyone who\'s serious about writing as a craft, or as a good-paying career. But they\'re great for a quick (usually tiny) paycheck, among other things. The bad-information issue is another problem entirely, and one of the reasons I think these sites may not last.
You can also read how proud some folks are of writing for mills, and see claims that they earn a very good living on them writing 4-7 articles per hour...usually defined as about $30-$40 an hour. I teach people to aim for $100 an hour as a freelancer.
One of the reasons I caution people against getting too attached to the mill model is I think it\'s going to change a lot. Just today, oDesk joined Demand Studios in announcing it will offer its freelancers health and other benefits. Why? These sites can\'t attract quality writers, so they\'re having to improve their offers. Soon I believe that will spill over into higher rates...though still not high enough to make them worth your while!
See my blog More on \'The Day the Content Mills Died\' for more info on how this marketplace is changing.
@Dane Morgan-I'm glad you posted and told your story. I'm in a similar boat. I have no college degree (yet) and no specialized knowledge--though I do have categories in which I focus when I do write--so it is indeed and extra challenge to find work. I feel your pain. I really do.
That said, I have still opted not to take these sweatshop jobs, because I HAVE professionally freelanced in the past, and I know I can make more than they offer. I choose instead to showcase my writing abilities via my various blogs. Yes, it is true: I have a day job and am not making money from my blogs; however, I AM getting read and (hopefully down the road) known for my chosen niches.
If I did not have a job, I MIGHT choose to do what you are doing, but it is more likely I would temp and look for more suitable gigs and submit to various publications.
Ultimately, we all have to do what is right for us, and I wish you luck.
Jennifer Moore
JenniferLynn Productions, LLC
That said, I have still opted not to take these sweatshop jobs, because I HAVE professionally freelanced in the past, and I know I can make more than they offer. I choose instead to showcase my writing abilities via my various blogs. Yes, it is true: I have a day job and am not making money from my blogs; however, I AM getting read and (hopefully down the road) known for my chosen niches.
If I did not have a job, I MIGHT choose to do what you are doing, but it is more likely I would temp and look for more suitable gigs and submit to various publications.
Ultimately, we all have to do what is right for us, and I wish you luck.
Jennifer Moore
JenniferLynn Productions, LLC
Thanks Carol. I totally agree with you. I'd been a freelance writer for around 15 years and pretty much gave up because I just got tired trying to explain to prospective/new clients who would pay a plumber $100 an hour, that a Masters degree-qualified writer (i.e. me) was not going to work for the equivalent of $15 an hour. Because most people can physically put pen to paper (finger to keyboard) there seems to be an assumption that anyone can write copy, and the only reason to hire a professional writer is to save time. I've been studying Information Management for the last couple of years and am now looking at having to go "back to work" and so not wanting to end up in a writing sweatshop. So thanks for your post and to all those who've responded. It's nice to know I'm not alone in wanting to be paid what I am worth.
Thanks, Carol, for validating what I have just recently come to realize. I am a beginning freelancer and actually wrote a couple articles for different "mills". When I finished the articles, I realized they were much too good for the lousy pay, so I did not submit them, preferring to hold on to them for submission to a much higher end type of publishing outlet. Your position gives newbies like myself the courage to stick to our convictions!
I haven't decided if you are delusional or you just have a rich partner supporting you, but you need to wake up and smell the unemployment lines! You are only making money because you are posting ridiculous statements on sites to get people to your blog.
The fact is, while I'm not about to give up traditional journalism, I'm grateful there are content mills out there so I can pay the bills while I wait endlessly for the "real" journalism jobs to pay me!
Now, I will take a page from your book and put my blog on here...
http://www.wineandspiritstraveler.com
The fact is, while I'm not about to give up traditional journalism, I'm grateful there are content mills out there so I can pay the bills while I wait endlessly for the "real" journalism jobs to pay me!
Now, I will take a page from your book and put my blog on here...
http://www.wineandspiritstraveler.com
Hi Marcia --
You may notice that I'm not selling much on my blog...or even over at my new site, Make a Living Writing. I make the vast majority of my money from freelance writing.
I provide information for writers about the business of writing mostly because there seems to be so many questions out there about how to earn, and so much confusion about what's happening in the marketplace. I feel grateful to know how to continue to earn well, and I'm trying to share that by giving back to the community.
I'm not waiting endlessly for real journalism jobs to pay me, Marcia...they're paying me right now. 2009 was my record earning year, up 10% from my previous record year -- 2008. I teach others how to make sure there's no recession in their writing business. When you're just one writer in the whole gigantic freelance market, there's enough work out there for little old you, is my belief. If you want it enough to go out and find it.
As for the 'rich partner' thing...I wish. My husband is still figuring out who he wants to be when he grows up.
In my view the people who are delusional are the ones running around screaming that the sky is falling and writing will never pay a living again. I've signed up several great new clients in just the past few months. Yes, the market is tough out there. But you can still have a great-paying writing career, if you're willing to market your business.
Maybe part of my view on mills comes from the fact that even if I wanted to write four articles an hour 40 hours a week, week after week (which I DON'T!).... I likely could not pay MY bills. I have three kids! So I never turned to mills as some kind of backup earning plan.
I do devote a small portion of my time each month to mentoring other writers and teaching them how to move beyond mills to better-paying markets, in today's economy. I could make more per-hour writing. I want to provide a resource for those who are looking for a way out to more control over their career, more challenging assignments and better earnings.
You may notice that I'm not selling much on my blog...or even over at my new site, Make a Living Writing. I make the vast majority of my money from freelance writing.
I provide information for writers about the business of writing mostly because there seems to be so many questions out there about how to earn, and so much confusion about what's happening in the marketplace. I feel grateful to know how to continue to earn well, and I'm trying to share that by giving back to the community.
I'm not waiting endlessly for real journalism jobs to pay me, Marcia...they're paying me right now. 2009 was my record earning year, up 10% from my previous record year -- 2008. I teach others how to make sure there's no recession in their writing business. When you're just one writer in the whole gigantic freelance market, there's enough work out there for little old you, is my belief. If you want it enough to go out and find it.
As for the 'rich partner' thing...I wish. My husband is still figuring out who he wants to be when he grows up.
In my view the people who are delusional are the ones running around screaming that the sky is falling and writing will never pay a living again. I've signed up several great new clients in just the past few months. Yes, the market is tough out there. But you can still have a great-paying writing career, if you're willing to market your business.
Maybe part of my view on mills comes from the fact that even if I wanted to write four articles an hour 40 hours a week, week after week (which I DON'T!).... I likely could not pay MY bills. I have three kids! So I never turned to mills as some kind of backup earning plan.
I do devote a small portion of my time each month to mentoring other writers and teaching them how to move beyond mills to better-paying markets, in today's economy. I could make more per-hour writing. I want to provide a resource for those who are looking for a way out to more control over their career, more challenging assignments and better earnings.
Ah, so that's it. You "only" charge $400 for 3 hours of mentoring.
Please excuse me while I laugh.
Please excuse me while I laugh.
Laugh away, Jared...I sent my husband to a career mentor a few years back, and it was $800 for two hours with no followup. Check around and I think you'll find I charge a pretty competitive rate for these kind of services.
And it's not just for 3 hours of mentoring -- you get unlimited email followup and support, community with all my other mentees, I'll look over your query letters or whatever else you'd like...and mentees will be getting a free copy of my ebook which should be out shortly and sell for $25. When you figure in all the support work I do on the back end, the hourly rate gets pretty low.
You can laugh...or you can take steps to learn how to earn high five figures or more from your writing. That's what I teach people to do. The excitement in my mentee group has really been building the past few months as the group grows and people start to implement the strategies we've identified for them to earn more. Investing in their careers, I find, makes writers get serious about moving up, and gives them accountability to a mentor and support group that keeps them motivated.
And getting one high-paying new connection that gives you one article assignment would usually more than pay for my services. Quite a few people are finding it well worth the money to speed up their process of finding out how to move up and earn well despite the economy.
As it happens, I usually only take on a couple new mentees a month, and I just have one slot left in February. Mention this blog thread and I'll take $50 off...want to firm up my schedule so willing to offer a discount.
Carol
And it's not just for 3 hours of mentoring -- you get unlimited email followup and support, community with all my other mentees, I'll look over your query letters or whatever else you'd like...and mentees will be getting a free copy of my ebook which should be out shortly and sell for $25. When you figure in all the support work I do on the back end, the hourly rate gets pretty low.
You can laugh...or you can take steps to learn how to earn high five figures or more from your writing. That's what I teach people to do. The excitement in my mentee group has really been building the past few months as the group grows and people start to implement the strategies we've identified for them to earn more. Investing in their careers, I find, makes writers get serious about moving up, and gives them accountability to a mentor and support group that keeps them motivated.
And getting one high-paying new connection that gives you one article assignment would usually more than pay for my services. Quite a few people are finding it well worth the money to speed up their process of finding out how to move up and earn well despite the economy.
As it happens, I usually only take on a couple new mentees a month, and I just have one slot left in February. Mention this blog thread and I'll take $50 off...want to firm up my schedule so willing to offer a discount.
Carol
Carol makes some good points but I wouldn't call what the content mills are doing "immoral." They're making money off simple, free-market supply and demand. It's not that different from the big glossy magazines that count on a steady supply of trustfunders to work as free interns.
But I won't write for them because I don't have to, and even if I didn't have a well-paying journalism job I'd rather go dig ditches for $10 per hour and get some exercise.
Anyhoo, I don't think these sites will last long because search engines like Google News are taking a harder line on who they link to and realizing the mills are just producing a bunch amateurish crap.
But I won't write for them because I don't have to, and even if I didn't have a well-paying journalism job I'd rather go dig ditches for $10 per hour and get some exercise.
Anyhoo, I don't think these sites will last long because search engines like Google News are taking a harder line on who they link to and realizing the mills are just producing a bunch amateurish crap.
You got it, Paul...there's a lot of speculation that the mill model may be on the way out because of search changes. See more reasons to avoid mills over at the WM Freelance Writing Connection, where we spent a whole week blogging on this topic last week.
Carol
Carol
Carol, this is a terrific post. Much more articulate than I could have hoped for in the one I did. As I said in my comment to my blog post at www.foliomag.com, the fallacy of the content mills' business model is that if no one can make a living creating content, then no one will create content.
hey thanks for the informative post...
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I can think of many reasons not to write for less money. But the fact is people are paying for outsourced work and they get bad quality articles and yet they still pay for it. What is seriously wrong with people?
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Amazon's mechanical turk is new to me... seems to have nothing to do with writing really... not sure what it is actually.
I wonder if the mills don't provide entry level - for serious writers with no credits to get two or three and then move on. If they do it may be that there are actually more opportunities now than before the 'net, when I started.
Mills are only a problem if a serious writer with some talent thinks that's the best they can do.
Anne